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Flash Compendium

Using Multiple Flashes

Wired Flash

There are several ways to use multiple flashes connected by wire.

You can use a dedicated flash on the camera. The flash unit must have a flash cable socket. You can then connect a cable CD/FA-MC1AM to this flash and plug the other end into another flash unit with a flash cable socket. If the second flash doesn't have that socket, you can use a OS-1100/FA-CS1AM (iISO socket) or FA-CS1M (Multi-Interface socket) with that flash.

With such a flash system, both flashes fire and are controlled by the body. You can set a ratio between the two flashes.

Another possible setup is to connect the cable OC-1100/FA-CC1AM (iISO shoe) or FA-CS1M with Cable CD/Sony FA-MC1AM (Multi-Interface shoe) to the camera and plug the other end into a Triple Connector TC-1000/FA-TC1AM. This is a small box that distributes the signal to three flashes. You can then connect flashes to the TC-1000/FA-TC1AM using the cable EX/FA-EC1AM. The flashes must have either a built-in socket for the cable or you have to use a OS-1100/FA-CS1AM (iISO shoe) or FA-CS1M (Multi-Interface shoe). Again, all flashes fire, controlled by the body. You can set a ratio between the flashes.

You can also daisy-chain flashes by using OS-1100's on flashes that also have a built-in socket. You use a OC-1100/FA-CC1AM to connect the camera with the OS-1100/FA-CS1AM of the first flash, and then you use cables CD/FA-MC1AM to connect the flash with its built-in socket with the OS-1100/FA-CS1AM of the next flash, and so on.

With a Multi-Interface shoe system you use a FA-CS1M on the camera. The first flash can be attached on the top of this connector. Then you use a Minolta Cable CD/Sony FA-MC1AM to connect this first FA-CS1M with the next flash. To add another flash you can again attach a FA-CS1M to the last flash in the chain, and use another cable to extend the chain to the next flash.

Wireless Flash

Minolta's wireless flash system also allows to use multiple flashes. You can use an unlimited number of remote flashes in wireless mode. They will all fire when triggered by the built-in flash, by the Minolta Wireless Flash Controller or by a suitable flash mounted on the camera (not all flash units can act as a wireless flash controller, see table, and digital cameras can not use an external flash as a controller at all).

By default the controlling flash contributes little to no light to the exposure. However, you can use ratio flash with some bodies. In this mode the controlling flash contributes 1/3 of the light, and all remote flashes together contribute 2/3 of the light.

When using the Minolta Wireless Flash Controller and multiple remote flashes, you can also set a 1:2 ratio between two remote flash groups. The flash group providing the 1/3 must consist of flashes 5400xi, 5400HS or 5600HS(D).

Sony has updated the system with the HVL-F58AM. It (and the HVL-F43AM) can be used as a controller on the α700 and α900 to control remote HVL-F58AM, HVL-F43AM and HVL-F42AM units. These flashes can be assigned to three groups (HVL-F42AM are always in the first remote group), and you can set a ratio between these groups and the controller, e. g. 1:4:16 for groups 1, 2 and 3 respectively. There is also a backward-compatible controller mode. With that you can control also older units from a α900, with up to 2 groups and ratio control.

Using wireless flash is more flexible than the wire system. You can place the remote flashes almost anywhere without having to worry about cable length etc. You are, however, limited to a shutter speed of 1/60 or 1/45 with older cameras and flashes.

The camera body can emit a test flash that triggers another test flash from the remote flashes after some delay. This way you can test the connection between the controller and the remote flashes. The remote flashes must be able to “see” the control pulses of the controller either directly or indirectly.

The Sony FA-WRC1M controller also allows to control multiple remote flashes. The Sony FA-WRR1 must be used as receiver with the flashes.

Leserkommentare

#1: Kommentar von Arni am 31. Dezember 2008, 23:05:51 Uhr:

If one uses a F85AM flash onboard on a A900 as a controller, does that count a a "group"? In other words, does the F85AM merely function as an "onboard-like-flash-controller", flashing at its lowest power. Or is it possible to use the F85AM as a group on its own, meaning it can flash at "full power" (mounted on the camera) AND triggering other flashes?
Have been looking for an answer, but never found one :-)

Michael Hohner antwortet:
In CTRL mode 1 the HVL-F58AM on the camera represents group 1, and remote flashes are either in group 2 or group 3. You can set the flash ratio between the three groups.

#2: Kommentar von Rene am 5. Dezember 2009, 09:35:19 Uhr:

I have an A700, which uses CTRL1 only correct? I have one HVL-F58AM which together with the A700 would work as the controller and group 1 (to bounce it off of the wall or ceiling). I have two HVL-F42AM flashes. Can I use them in group 2 and group 3 respectively and set the ratios between the three "speedlights"? According to your previous answer I can, but what about the (HVL-F42AM are always in the first remote group) note? Does that apply, meaning I can't put any HVL-F42AMs in grps two and three?

thx for your great site! I learned more on here in 5 minutes than in the flash manual in 3 hours:)
-Rene

Michael Hohner antwortet:
A HVL-F42AM is always in the first remote group (RMT) in such a setup, i.e. you can have only two groups, the controller on the camera and the remote HVL-F42AMs. For a third group (second remote group) you'd have to use another HVL-F58AM.

#3: Kommentar von Rizal am 21. Januar 2010, 15:32:17 Uhr:
hai,im using a350 dslr n 5600hs external flash,i try using d wireless function it wont work,when i pop up d flash and press d ael button d flash fired.when i press d shutter it cant fired, Try to make as a controller,5600hs fix to d hot shoe using a 3500xi as a wireless,same problem...

Michael Hohner antwortet:
Is this really the 5600HS(D) and not the 5400HS? The latter is not compatible with DSLRs. The 5600HS(D) also can not be used as a controller on the camera. The built-in flash must be the controller. Both the camera and the flash must be set to wireless flash. Also note that the camera may decide not to fire the flash when in AUTO mode. Use P, A, S or M mode and pop up the flash manually.

#4: Kommentar von realgeek am 8. Februar 2010, 18:43:04 Uhr:

I think I understand how the wireless groups work, but I have three questions.

First, is it true that in any given group you can have any number of flashes set to go off simultaneously? (I think the answer to this is yes.)

Second, can you mix and match different models? E.g., in the old wireless protocol (with a sub-A700 model, for example), can you set an HVL-F56AM, an HVL-F42AM, and an HVL-F58AM to wireless and have them all fire simultaneously?

Third, can you do this mixing and matching on an A850/A900 using the old protocol? (I understand that you have to use the HVL-F58AM as the control, and that the new protocol is pretty restricted, but can you set off different model flashes using the old protocol?)

Thanks!

Michael Hohner antwortet:
The answer to all three questions is “yes”. The older protocol is selected as CTRL2 on the HVL-F58AM (or by using the HVL-F20AM as the controller). Also see the table on the other page.

#5: Kommentar von Matt Fisher am 28. Mai 2010, 23:01:21 Uhr:

"In theory you can also daisy-chain flashes by using OS-1100's on flashes that also have a built-in socket. You use a OC-1100/FA-CC1AM to connect the camera with the OS-1100/FA-CS1AM of the first flash, and then you use cables CD/FA-MC1AM to connect the flash with its socket with the OS-1100/FA-CS1AM of the next flash, and so on. However, I'm not sure if such a setup works. I'd like to hear from people who have tried that."

I'd like to try this - has anyone confirmed it will work? I have an A850, a Minolta 5600, and a Sony 42. The 5600 has the cable socket, but the 42 has only its shoe. I was hoping to connect my camera to the 5600 via a FA-CC1AM (which I have and which works fine) and then connect the 5600 to the 42 shoe to shoe (with what? two Sony FA-CS1AMs and a FA-EC1AM?)

Any people who've tried this?

#6: Kommentar von K Tjoelker am 31. Mai 2010, 20:15:50 Uhr:

Congratulations for maintaining these pages. As you write, it is difficult to find information about the flash capabilities of the Sony Alpha cameras. I have some complementary questions.
1. You write about A700 and A900. How about the more recent Sony A models?
2. How about using dedicated Metz flashes? Do they offer the same possibilities? E.g. Metz 48 AF-1 digital.
3. How about Sony's own HVL-F36AM?
Thank you for answering.
Regards, K Tjoelker

Michael Hohner antwortet:
You can find more info about other Sony cameras and flashes on the other pages of the Flash Compendium, e. g. here. Regarding Metz I recommend going to their homepage to find out about their supported features.

#7: Kommentar von Matt Fisher am 24. Juni 2010, 16:39:05 Uhr:
Regarding my question #5, above: I tried a variant of this and it works perfectly. Here's a link to a demo I made to illustrate. I used ethernet cable and a couple of hotshoe adaptors. http://www.flickr.com/photos/11593221@N04/sets/72157624218518105/ (Sorry, I can never remember how to hotlink here.)

#8: Kommentar von Giuseppe Stama am 30. September 2010, 13:56:23 Uhr:
Dear Sir With a wired flash configuration, using two 5600HSD flash, can I set ratio between the two flash with a new digital camera (a850) with then automatic exposure advantages? Thanks Giuseppe

Michael Hohner antwortet:
This is not possible. You can only switch the flashes to manual mode and set a ratio by using different power levels (and possibly by using different flash distances).

#9: Kommentar von Giuseppe Stama am 2. Oktober 2010, 13:35:41 Uhr:

Thanks for the answer. Very very informative site.
Another question if it is possible.
Sony write on the TC-1000 triple connector Operating Instructions that "The exposure performance may be impaired if there are more than six Off-Camera Cables for Flash, Extention Cables for Flash and Multi Flash Cables connected.
It 's a problem of the type of cable or signal strength?
You can bypass the problem by using higher performance cables?
For your experience waht is the maximum cable lenght that save TTL?
Thanks
Giuseppe

Michael Hohner antwortet:
With longer cables and multiple connectors in between, the signal quality deteriorates until the flash protocol no longer works. I have not tested the maximum cable length, but when Sony says that 6 cables are the maximum, then I'd trust that value.

#10: Kommentar von Remko am 3. März 2011, 00:19:16 Uhr:

Hi Michael,

I read this page just today, and thought of the daisy-chain connection between some 5600's. As I also read you're looking for people who can test this for you...

I recall I tested something alike before, just not in the way you described it. It didn't work in the other way, but with this daisy-chain setup (starting with an OC-1100) using OS-1100 for the input flash signal and the on-flash connector for the connection to the next flash it did work!

I also put some EX-cables in between, it still worked. Also when a 3600HS was on the end of the daisy-chain, and with 5200i likewise. Of course 5200i only fires with full power, so perhaps usefull for background lighting?

I just lack some CD-cables and some more OS-1100 shoes. But proof of principle is given now ;)

Best regards,
Remko

(tested this using KM-5D, 2x 5600 in daisy-chain w/ OC-1100, OS-1100, Cable EX, Cable CD; replaced second 5600 by 3600 and later by 5200i)

#11: Kommentar von David Pilling am 18. September 2012, 18:07:51 Uhr:

To me wireless equals radio. In this discussion does wireless equal infrared. I know it is all electromagnetic radiation but putting wireless (infrared) would make things so much clearer.

I can imagine that a camera has maybe an infrared focus assist light which can be used for signalling to other devices.

On attempting to connect more than one flash by wire, are there any electronics in the various devices like the triple connector or the FA-MC1AM multi flash cable. If not then connecting multiple flashes is a trivial matter of electrical connections.

Michael Hohner antwortet:
See the previous page in this series: wireless, in that case, means optical. The camera uses coded flash pulses to control remote flashes. The (new) triple connectors do not contain electronics. They are really just boxes with matching connectors.

#12: Kommentar von Mark Houston am 6. März 2013, 22:42:26 Uhr:
Hello Mr. Hohner, Thank you very much for the site. A lot of information to look over for me. Question number 4 on this page is inline with my needs. I have A77 and I would like that to be the controller of my HVL-F56AM and HVL-F43AM. I'm still not sure how to set this up. Sincerely, Mark

Michael Hohner antwortet:
You just switch on the flashes and set them up in wireless off-camera mode, then you pop up the camera's flash and set up the camera for wireless mode, and then you shoot. The manuals describe in detail which buttons to press.

#13: Kommentar von Simon am 6. August 2013, 14:18:52 Uhr:

Dear Michael,

I wanting to achieve 3-point TTL ratioed lighting on an A77. Let's take it that all the right models of flash are being used as per the table here: http://www.mhohner.de/sony-minolta/flashcomp_setups.php

I'm thinking that option (1) below is possible, but that options (1a) & (2) are not. I'd be most grateful if you can clarify.

1. Controller mounted on A77 (acting as fill), with two off camera flashes, one acting as main and the other as hair light. With, say, a ratio for main:fill:hair light of 1:2:8 (1--1/2--1/8). (The fill is on the camera).

1a. Could a fourth flash be incorporated (to the above), just to act as a controller, not contributing to exposure (so that all 3 main:fill:back light flashes could be off camera -- still set at a ratio 1:2:8.

2. Same as above (1), but the fill not mounted on the camera--and the inbuilt popup flash used as the controller.

===
Also, what would happen with option (1) if the on camera mounted flash (fill) was turned to bounce off a wall (i.e. no longer direct). Would the ttl system be able to accommodate that and still maintain a ratio to the amount of light reaching the subject from the fill--or would the ttl system just be 'confused by it'.

regards,
Simon

Michael Hohner antwortet:

Ratio flash requires a suitable flash on the camera as a controller. With the built-in flash you can not have ratio flash. So option 2 is not possible.

Option 1a is also not possible as described. With ratio flash all three groups contribute to exposure. However, you can connect the controlling flash to the camera with cables and move it away from the camera that way. But it will still light the scene.

The ratio flash system is TTL controlled, i.e. if you bounce the flashes or reduce their power in another way, the system will compensate. This will only not work when the controlling flash becomes so weak that it is no longer “seen” by the remote flashes.

#14: Kommentar von Simon am 7. August 2013, 03:36:47 Uhr:
Thank you Michael, your responses appreciated. I am now pretty clear on the operation of Sony's TTL flash system. Kind regards, Simon

#15: Kommentar von Simon am 7. August 2013, 18:19:03 Uhr:

Hi Michael, an extra couple of questions!

I am wanting to confirm if the Sony flash acting as a controller (in a wireless ratio 3 x flash setup) communicates with the other two flashes via:

a) Flashes from the controllers flash tube (albeit low power/intensity ones)aside from it's actual exposure preflash.

b) Infra red communications.

Also, your comments/feedback about the following would be appreciated:

===
As above, it's been indicated to me from elsewhere that communication from the controller flash, is via its flash tube -- which I was surprised by. In this regard, it's been suggested that the entire comms and preflash (for a wireless ratio 3 x flash setup) takes (approx) 500ms -- which seems like there might be a lot of communications via flash (inc. the 3 preflashes) going on, for a significant period of time before each picture taken.
===

regards,
Simon

Michael Hohner antwortet:
Yes, the controller uses the flash bulb to send messages to the remote flashes.

#16: Kommentar von Mike am 21. August 2013, 19:22:21 Uhr:

Hi Michael,
Just bought a ?True? Hot Shoe TTL Pass-Through cable and plan to connect as follows:
One end to be connected to Sony A850 camera Hot Shoe with the F42AM flash connected to the ?Hot Shoe TTL Pass-Through? on the top ; the other end of this cable with a TTL hot shoe to be connected to F56AM flash. Electrically both Sony flashes are TTL connected to A850 camera.
Please advise if it?s OK. Do we need any settings on camera/flashes to make them work in TTL mode?
Thanks for your help.

Michael Hohner antwortet:
Do you have more information about this cable?

#17: Kommentar von Mike am 22. August 2013, 15:25:56 Uhr:

It is a 3 meter 4-conductor cable, one end is a Hot Shoe for Sony Flash (remote) and other end is a Hot Shoe Pass Thru (its bottom with 4 Male contacts, exactly as Sony flash bottom to snap in to A850 Hot Shoe, its top is exactly as A850 Hot Shoe for another Sony flash (local). I already checked that all contacts at each terminal (local & remote) are properly connected; and tested this cable on A850 with my Sony flash F56AM snapped on the cable remote end, then on the local end (Hot Shoe Pass Thru end)respectively. Both tests gave true TTL with perfect results. Please advise if it is OK to use TWO Sony TTL flashes hooked to 2 ends (local & remote) of this cable at the same time and both will give TTL performance at the same time?

Michael Hohner antwortet:
This sounds like this cable is equivalent to the Minolta TC-1000/Sony FA-TC1AM, just for only two flashes instead of three. I guess it's intended to be used as it appears. What does the manufacturer of this cable say?

#18: Kommentar von Mike am 22. August 2013, 21:05:23 Uhr:

Thanks.
Ebay has numerous generic ones WITHOUT Hot Shoe Pass Through, just normal mount Male contacts adapter for snapping to Camera Hot Shoe . Look carefully at all details on photo and make sure it has a Hot Shoe PASS THROUGH (one end has 4 male contacts at the BOTTOM side for snapping to Camera Hot Shoe AND on the TOP side is a Hot Shoe for Sony flash; the other end of the cable is, of couse, a Sony Hot Shoe for another Sony flash with a thread hole at the bottom for Tripod mount. I bought two for USD 5.00 each with Free Shipping (from China?).

Michael Hohner antwortet:
Well, try at your own risk.

#19: Kommentar von Mike am 22. August 2013, 21:32:50 Uhr:
No instruction at all. Even no claiming that it is Hot Shoe PASS THROUGH Cable!

#20: Kommentar von Simon am 20. April 2014, 01:16:02 Uhr:

In the time since I asked the questions above, I purchased 3 x Metz 52 AF-1s and I can confirm that in the main, they work exactly as equivalent Sony branded flashes would be expected to function with an a77 with 3 flashes in TTL ratio mode (one controller in CTRL+ mode + two remote flashes in TTL slave mode).

However, I've since taken to wanting to bounce the flashes (as opposed to pointing them direct at subjects) and realised I don't understand if/how the following scenarios will work:

1. If it's just the controller flash that sends out a preflash (which I believe is the case?) how can it apportion the requisite flash power settings to all involved TTL flashes for the main image flash - given it doesn't know distances or angles which each flash is pointing, relative to the subject.

2. I've experimented with the controller mounted on the camera in CTRL mode (as opposed to CTRL+ mode) along with a single remote. In this case my understanding is that the controller flash is not meant to contribute to the actual flash exposure of the image. However - it appears that it is still the controller (CTRL) unit that sends out the pre-flash. Is this correct, and if so, how could relevant settings fro other remote flashes be obtained from this information.

I'm thinking that in both scenarios, if all flashes are involved in a preflash themselves, the mechanism would be explained. However, especially in scenario (2) the remote only seems to flash once.

thanks,
Simon

Michael Hohner antwortet:

The above text was written for the analog wireless flash system, with TTL-OTF metering. The camera is triggering the remote flashes, measures exposure in real time, and when correct exposure is reached, it sends a stop signal to the remote flashes. With modern pre-flash TTL metering, I assume that also the remote flashes must be involved during metering, for the reasons you have stated. I have not investigated this in detail.

I don't think you can tell whether there are one or two flashes from the remote flashes, because they are bright and close together. You probably need some measuring equipment.

#21: Kommentar von Gandhi Medina am 15. September 2014, 10:22:32 Uhr:
Hello there, Greetings from Arequipa - Peru I have a big doubt, I have the flash Minolta 5600HS and wanted to know if it works in automatic mode (TTL ADI) and wireless mode with cameras Sony A380, A390, A850 and A900, thank you very much for your time, and congratulations on your web, you learn much here, a hug in the distance Atte. Gandhi Palomino google traslate

Michael Hohner antwortet:
I suppose you mean the 5600HS(D), not the 5400HS. The 5600HS(D) works with these cameras without restrictions. Also see the F.A.Q.

#22: Kommentar von Dick Siesling am 16. Oktober 2015, 23:15:53 Uhr:
I have a camera Sony A 99. I won't buy an flash, but not the Sony Flash ( very expensive ) I thought about the Altura or the Neewer . They made advertising only Nikon and Canon, it there also possibilities about the Sony A 99. In advance thank you. Sincerely , Dick Siesling

Michael Hohner antwortet:
I never even heard about these brands. If they don't make models specifically for Sony you will not have much fun with these.

#23: Kommentar von Tim Hartley am 1. Februar 2018, 14:08:42 Uhr:

I have a 5600 HSD and an HVL F58AM which I am using with an A77 II. I have successfully used the pop-up flash as the master but would like to be able to have frontal fill in flash as well as some flash from each side of the subject. Is there any way of doing that using the HVL F58 on top of the camera and either another old HSD Minolta flash or an HVL F58 or F43 off camera to the sides?
Also is it possible to set flash output to, say, 1/4 on Minolta flash(es) to reduce the amount of light output? I realise I cold have a simple solution using ratio control with the F58 on the camera and the 5600HSD to one side but am I right in thinking that introducing a third flashgun is not possible but could be done with a second F58aM to one side and the 5600HSD on the other? or would I need to get at least an HVL F43 to achieve a three flash ration controlled set up?
Many thanks for these pages which are a wonderful source of help and information - it is a shame that Sony do not provide anything like as much information and what there is is much less clear.

Michael Hohner antwortet:
Ratio control with three groups means using CTRL+ mode, and the 5600HS(D) does not support this mode. With the older CTRL mode the 5600HS(D) can be used as a remote flash, but you can control only two groups. Also see the interactive table on the other page so see which combinations of cameras and flashes can be used.